MyDD :: What Would You Say To A Red-State Friend?

What Would You Say To A Red-State Friend?

by ProgressiveChristian, Mon May 02, 2005 at 06:23:20 PM EST

I recently got pleasant surprise e-mail from a long-lost college roommate who stumbled across my personal website. He's a rock musician in Dallas that pays his bills as a motorcycle mechanic. Single, white, mid-40's. I think he served a stint in the Army. Turned me on to Van Halen. Good guy, or at least he was 24 years ago. Just an ordinary fella going to work and trying to get through life.

He made the following comment after noticing a counter I have on my home page giving the exact number of days, hours and minutes until Bush leaves office...

I like the Bush countdown, never had a head for politics, I know rabid liberals and conservatives, lost on me, pretty much a middle man. Never could take anything seriously enough to have an opinion. Seems to me to be a hopeless mess, gonna go on like it is until everything collapses. Nihilist, I guess.

I feel the need to respond with something brief, yet compelling, as red-state outreach but am not sure exactly what to say. Since we may never speak again, I want it to be thought-provoking while allowing us to part as friends. My initial instinct was to mention the 1,500 dead soldiers, 10K wounded solders and 100K dead civilians in Iraq, but given the bipartisan support for the Iraq debacle, I'm not sure that draws a clear enough distinction.

So, I'm curious how some in the blogosphere would respond. What would you say?

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Choose life... (none / 0)

I think the best thing to try to encourage is that each of us should reject the urge to commit self-immolation in the death-based armageddon scenario that the right seems pushing..

Return to community, (resist atomization - enslavement) share (resist greed and fear) communicate

In other words.. choose life..

by ultraworld on Mon May 02, 2005 at 11:04:25 AM EST

Forget the red state part (3.00 / 1)

... what this guy is saying is a description of voter apathy and that exists everywhere. Unless he expressed republican beliefs elsewhere in the message he seems completely open to democratic views (liking the bush countdown)... it is just apathy, powerlessness, and hopelessness that he is feeling.

Howard Dean is the answer to that. Regardless of what you think of Dean as a candidate there is no denying he impact on activating citizens to get involved and empower themselves. Find his "You have the power" quotes and find examples of DFA members and groups taking that power, running with it, and making a difference.

Let him know he is not alone. One of the strongest messages I heard in 2003 when working on Dean petition drive and primary campaign was Democrats and Liberals feeling like they were surrounded and all alone in their beliefs (resulting in those powerless, hopeless, apathetic feelings). One of the greatest joys was to see people light up and get energized once they discovered they were not alone and that there were specific actions they could take to make a difference. Find examples of this (particularly close to home to him) and show him that it is not hopeless and that citizens... citizens like him... are taking back their government... running for local office, picking their own candidates and backing them, etc.

Empower him.

The 10,000 Things

by Andrew C White on Mon May 02, 2005 at 02:58:50 PM EST

Re: Forget the red state part (none / 0)

Empowerment is probably the most important part, but getting someone to acknowledge that having an opinion is good can be another obstacle. Afterall, being able to do something and knowing what to do it for are different things.

by nanoboy on Mon May 02, 2005 at 06:45:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

tell you friend.... (3.00 / 1)

to hook up with the dallas area DFA activists. they rock - i should know, i've been working with them for nearly three years.

just being with those people - having that sense of community - really does wonders.

Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!

by annatopia on Tue May 03, 2005 at 11:50:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If he doesn't care about Iraq by now, (none / 0)

If he doesn't care about Iraq by now, he's not going to start caring now.

I'd talk about the economy comparing the 1990's to now. Talk about the 22 million jobs under Clinton to the job losses under Bush, etc.

by LSdemocrat1 on Mon May 02, 2005 at 06:59:42 PM EST

It's Important To Not Get Too Fervent (none / 0)

I find that if you respond with the zeal of a missionary, you can just as easily turn the reader off. I'd simply say something like "oh, I think my life as an American has gotten worse under this administration, and I'm just counting the days until it ends." I might add something like "I haven't lost my faith in the political process, and I still believe that this is the peoples' government, and in the end, we can make a difference." If I had to make a political observation, I'd keep it mild. Something like "It bothers me that my [brother, sister, whoever] can't get health insurance, and from what I understand, 40 million other Americans are in that same boat. Given that we have about 250MM Americans, that's a sizable percentage of my fellow Americans who hope every day that they don't get a serious injury. That just seems wrong to me." If you stick with statements related to what you think, feel, and believe, and keep them on the mild side (as opposed to provocative), it may not convince your friend to come on over to our side, but it will at least cause him to THINK.

by grapeshot on Mon May 02, 2005 at 07:55:55 PM EST

Show Up. (none / 0)

I don't know who said it first, but I like the saying that "decisions are made by those who show up". Even if he can't change the result with just one vote, the next time he hears about the VA benefits taken away from his army buddies, it feels a lot better knowing he did SOMETHING, even if it's just voting, to try and stop it.

by Tod on Mon May 02, 2005 at 08:01:01 PM EST

Re: Show Up. (none / 0)

Good point. Voter turnout, in every category, is far too low. As one wry political reporter put it: "It has been said that Congress is the voice of the people. More accurately, it's the voice of one in five people."

by craverguy on Tue May 03, 2005 at 02:53:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Show Up. (none / 0)

"decisions are made by those who show up"

President Bartlett :-)

Middle of the road, populist message is the way to go here. Don't talk against Bush directly, but talk to the tons of bad decisons made by this administration. Stay away from the religious issues, and stick to the class warfare/social security/social action topics.
TONS of common ground there....

by Bruticus on Tue May 03, 2005 at 09:50:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

first you validate (none / 0)

First you acknowledge that is real sense to his point his view. There is a lot of slime and a lot padding one's own pocket and a lot of taking the American people for a ride.

Then you tell him that him that even given that you've decided to put your efforts with the democrats. Reason is that more of them care about the little guy and more of them don't want to mess in your life.

Then your remind him how for a whole of folks in government --and mostly the republicans --its all about lining their own pockets or those of their friends --big oil, big corporations, estate taxes, etc. etc.

Bring on the populism and class warfare.

by lindiana0 on Mon May 02, 2005 at 08:34:37 PM EST

They changed your polling place (none / 0)

to precinct 10.

Sure man, I just read it in the paper.
Ok, no problem, dude. Just looking out for you!

by Sam Loomis on Mon May 02, 2005 at 09:25:36 PM EST

All politics is local (none / 0)

The validation would be good, but I'm sure he cares about something. Censorship? Van Halen may not make onto the air in a few years. Money? When was the last time he bought gas for less than $2.00? Just keep talking to him. You may find that he cares about a lot of stuff, just doesn't think he can do anything about it.

I bet he would be more interested if he had a chance to do a benefit concert for some of the local candidates. Can you hook him up?

by quaker on Mon May 02, 2005 at 09:55:36 PM EST

jd (none / 0)

Sounds like a good guy who feels pretty much the way a lot of us feel. I would just make the point that nihilism is easy and while he may be right about the way of the world you feel it's worth trying. So you do.

Lectures, statistics, facts all bullshit when you feel this helpless. and in the end are patronizing something well educated northeast liberals are really good at. I would never lose a friend over politics especially one who shares your taste in music.

by jd2 on Mon May 02, 2005 at 10:07:06 PM EST

Apathy (none / 0)

Dallas inspires apathy. While I truely like the city and have lived there most of my life, it is easy to slip through the cracks. At face value, the economy in Dallas seem pretty good-- glitzy malls, new football stadiums, an amazing number of nice cars--so the economic argument might not work. Conservatism and individualism prevail, so show him that through political involvement, things become bigger than youself. As JD wrote, nihlism is easy, but probably not overly appealing.
But keep up the emailing if you feel compelled. Liberalism, like Christianity, can be best shared when its lived out over a period of time, rather than in force fed snippits.

by TexanInOhio on Tue May 03, 2005 at 12:34:51 AM EST

middle? what middle? (none / 0)

You could tell him (in the words of a great Digby post up now http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2005_05_01_digbysblog_archive.html#111505570088217005 ) --

"There is no real middle, there are only two opposing forces."

The middle isn't holding. If you're "in the middle" and there is no middle then you're really nowhere. Talk about nihilism.

by erasmus on Tue May 03, 2005 at 12:42:42 AM EST

The Middle is alive and well (none / 0)

I respectfully disagree wholeheartedley with your statements. The middle is growing. Don't be fooled by the red/blue talk. Many of the people who voted for Kerry were actually voting against Bush.
In Congress, the middle is manifested by the moderate Republicans, who have grown from the 'Northwest Four'. As for the populace, centrist Democrats who were leaning pro-life, are THE MAIN reason for Bush's close wins in few states, including the %16 Black turonout that he got in Ohio.
The Deomcrats are headed for distaster if they don't recognize the growing number of centrists in their base who are fiscally and socially moderate/liberal, but are NOT proponents of gay marriage and are pro-life leaning.
The Republicans are already getting headaches trying to keep the moderates in their party, who are basically somewhat liberatarian and are getting tired of the growing deficit, huge gov't military spending, heavy military casualties abroad and the heavy Christian influence (which puts them on the same page as many democrats)
As you know, many libertarians are pro-choice....
The middle is growing....It's just not the same middle for both sides.

by Bruticus on Tue May 03, 2005 at 10:19:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Middle is alive and well (none / 0)

Part of your argument is really just the semantics of what you're calling the "middle". The "middle" occupied (or believed to be occupied) by the red state friend in question, is not the "middle" of moderate Rs and Ds that you describe.

The rest of your argument is just wishful thinking. Party discipline on both sides currently is stronger than I've seen in a while and the country is pretty well divided on many fronts. The moderates you identify in both parties (plus libertarians -- who've never had much impact on the politics of this country anyway, etc.) don't appear to be coalescing into one big "middle".

I see no real world support for your argument other than the current poll numbers for the Pres -- but I don't think he's falling in the polls because people are waking up or moving to the "middle." Iraq's going bad and gas is skyrocketing. If either or both of those go the other way, he'll be back in favor -- with approx 50% of the people. The other 50% (me and the other smart ones) will hate him regardless of the turn of events.

by erasmus on Tue May 03, 2005 at 11:19:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Rescue the Lost (none / 0)

Your friend is , as we say in our church .. LOST.

This is an easy one.
Here's what you say.

" In 1775 we felt disconnected from our government. King George was making decisions for us but not giving us any say. So we gave him the biggest Tea party you'd ever seen.

We had to dress up like wild indians and we had to
sneak around, and frankly = it was alot of fun.
And we sent those british troops back to
where they came, with a lot of help from
the French navy and just a little luck and courage.

It seems to me that you have had both in your
life. We do things that make us lucky. The best
thing I've ever done is stand up against the
partisans. Stand up against the people who
want the maybe somewhat boring job of government
to be some flashy, WWF thing happening all the time - and bring to your neighborhood
the excitement of having the local TV news station
report about how someone is going to put
in a speed bump or something, because
local citizens got the job done.

Never be afraid to be a fool for christ.
Thats the way the founding fathers designed
this country. The idiots on both sides
of the aisle will stand up to try to
take you down, they get paid to do nothing
if the partisan bickering keeps going on.

Head out against those idiots that tell you
your vote doesn't count. They stand their
in front of you in their white coats and
their polished smiles holding their statistics
and their predictions and their ever increasing
fees to advertise on TV coupled to their ever
decreasing share of people like yourself,
the huge dollars - quarter a billion here,
quarter billion there - they want to make sure
the whole world knows how happy your local
TV station is to be a part of a big
happy advertising family. But they can't
sell you anything if the TV is off. And it is.
Starve them out. Make it clear that if they're
going to get your money, every single thing
out of their mouth should be just like the
words you would use to wake your daughter in
the morning - you never know the dream -
you just try to balance, and weigh each word -
each position - give them all sides of the
equation and let them decide. Let her
wake up with a smile - your vivid stories
and screen crawlers and banging graphics
just make her head hurt.

Finally learn how to use a gun. The Democratic
party is a party of fighting liberals.
The last thing it needs is someone who
is too gay to be able to defend their own
country or themselves. The activity of
firing a weapon, balancing it - the hand/eye
coordination. The exercise. Teach it to your
son and your daughter and keep the faith.
Reform may just cost more than you think.

But ultimately go before your god knowing,
as he did - that you will stretch your arms
out and say 'I love my country this much'..
And not worry at night about if you're
doing it just to line the pockets of some
greedy rich guy. Some rich man somewhere
greasing the skids of his corporate lobbyist
pals. Buying his way in.

Everything is on the line, and the red states
will take the hardest hit if you lose. The last
thing you need to be is a partisan.
"

Something like that.

by turnerbroadcasting on Tue May 03, 2005 at 09:57:39 AM EST

Don't patronize him (none / 0)

I think even those of us who are obsessively tracking politics can understand how he feels. So I'd say something simple like, yep I know the feeling, but sometimes things in politics can not just piss me off but really make a difference to things I care about, and that's why voting and staying at least minimally informed and involved is a good thing.

by snaktime on Tue May 03, 2005 at 11:03:23 AM EST

Respect their journey in life (none / 0)

I think you can have your answer by coming at it from the perspective that they are not the enemy.

Each of us in this life is on a journey to find ourself. For me, as a person of faith, finding myself is finding that unique gift from God that matches up with where the world has greatest need (paraphrasing Walter Brueggeman).

It follows then that people who don't yet get the ideals that we liberals expouse, haven't really begun to find themselves. It's not a linear thing in which my journey is superior to theirs either (though I often find that difficult to really believe).

I think it's just part of a very complex process in which others, regardless of their beliefs, affect each other in unexpected ways.

I would encourage an attitude of offering others respect in their journeys, just as you would want this for yourself. Make yourself a compassionate person even as you remain passionate with your beliefs; say what you believe.

Ask the important questions about what gives life meaning and listen to where their values are coming from. If you can't get somewhere with this don't bother engaging them any further.

It really comes down to liberals offering a life with meaning and today's conservatives offering a life of greed. If you can get them to walk away wondering more about their own life and how much meaning it contains (without getting preachy), you've done all you can do.

Regards,

Patrick Briggs,
Pasadena, CA

by pbriggsiam on Tue May 03, 2005 at 12:48:21 PM EST

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